It
was an all-English rivalry played out in Europe that dominated the 2000s.
Liverpool and Chelsea, though often miles apart domestically, went
toe-to-toe in the Champions League in five separate seasons, punctuated by
some domestic duels and transfer sagas.
In 2004/05, after Chelsea beat Liverpool in the League Cup final for Jose
Mourinho's first trophy, the Reds knocked the Blues out of the Champions
League at the semi-final stage with Luis Garcia's 'ghost goal', before going
on to beat AC Milan in Istanbul.
After the unusual event of being paired in the 2005/06 group stages and
playing out two goalless draws, in 2006/07, Liverpool again saw off Chelsea
in the semi-final. This time they won on penalties at Anfield, but Chelsea
were victorious in the 2007/08 semi-finals and 2008/09 quarter-finals with
19 goals scored over four games.
Here, Jamie Carragher is joined by John Terry in a special edition of Off
Script to tell the story of the rivalry, played out with leading roles from
Mourinho, Rafa Benitez, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Fernando Torres and
more…
Download the full Off Script podcast with Terry, Carragher and Geoff
Shreeves: Spotify | Apple | Castbox | Spreaker
Terry and Carragher faced each other 30 times in all competitions, with
Terry wining 13 and Carra 10.
Here, they reminisce on what made the rivalry between the clubs so intense,
and how Liverpool got the better of Chelsea on big European evenings despite
trailing well behind in the Premier League...
Terry: I think for us as an English team, you want to avoid any English
team, whether in the group or knockout.
The rivalry was really intense over the years; obviously myself, Lamps,
Carra, Stevie were fighting for England spots too around that time.
The fans didn’t like each other too much.
Carra: Neither did the players!
Terry: "The rivalry was really intense over the years"
Terry: I’ve heard you say that before, I quite respected you guys!
Carra: I played Chelsea 47 times, so they're the opponents I came up against
most.
I always wondered if a lot of the animosity came from us frustrating you
because you were always so much better than us. I don’t think we were ever
on a level playing field. We knew that, you knew that. But the fact we could
get results against you at that time, certainly under Jose’s era, was that a
little bit part of it?
Terry: Yeah, it was, and both managers made a big thing of that. I remember
the team talk Mourinho gave after we won the league for the first time, and
I think we were something like 20 or 30 points ahead of you, and he was
saying: “There’s no way you can lose this game against these.”
He couldn’t even say the name Liverpool, he couldn’t even pronounce the
team. It was: “You do not lose to these today, we are so much better than
these.” I remember that still today.
It was a frustration. You always found a way to really settle the game in
the away fixtures. But for us going into the stadium in the Anfield games,
I’ve said over the years it was the best atmosphere I’ve gone into as a
player.
Terry says the atmosphere at Anfield in 2005 was the best he'd ever
experienced
Frustration is probably the word, because we won leagues and we felt we were
the better side but we just couldn’t break you down at times.
Carra: Jose dominated the coverage for two or three years, he was massive,
wasn’t he? And the fact that it was now and again mentioned that Rafa was
tactically clever, I always thought it made Jose do different things in
games against us. Sometimes I would see the team sheet come in and I would
think: “Why is he playing?” like he changed sometimes for Liverpool. Did he
feel he had to do something different because of Rafa? I always felt if you
played your normal 4-3-3 with the two wingers you were a better team than
us.
Terry: I think he respected the players you had, including yourself and
Stevie, so maybe he changed at times.
In those games he definitely showed you a little bit more respect. I think
that’s a credit to Liverpool and the team you had. Even in the league I
thought you were better than what you achieved year in, year out.
Him and Rafa had that rivalry, didn’t they. They hated each other, really!
But he didn’t do it because of Rafa, I think it was out of respect for the
team you had.
Carra: Wayne Rooney told me a story once, and I think it showed the
animosity towards Chelsea at that time, from a lot of clubs.
Jose was so brash, so much on the front foot, cocky, arrogant, good looking.
He seemed to have everything at that time.
Rooney told us that when we beat you on penalties in the 2007 semi-final,
and they were playing their semi-final second leg against Milan the next
evening, all the Man United lot in the hotel watching it before erupted and
cheered when we won. And you think with the Liverpool and Man United
rivalry, I think it just shows how much you were respected and feared, but
also how much Jose Mourinho got under people’s skin.
Terry: Chelsea were disliked by entire Premier League
Terry: I think we were disliked by I think the whole of the Premier League.
With Roman coming in, injecting the money, and what Mourinho was about as
well. Within those meetings we had, it was about us against them. We wanted
to build a fortress.
He made us feel so together and so connected, that we could feel we could go
out and beat anyone, regardless of the fear factor or how good the other
team were.
So, how did you earn the upper hand in this game? And what special tactics
did Rafa and Mourinho implement?
Carra: You needed not to make mistakes. They probably weren’t great watches
for the neutral, but it was the intensity of what was at stake. We were
teams renowned for our defensive records, more than our attacking records.
But I always felt going into the game that if you made a mistake you were
going to lose. Chelsea were too good defensively, and you knew you had to
keep a clean sheet to beat them too. Whoever made the least mistakes ended
up coming out on top.
Terry: I’d have to agree. I remember in Mourinho’s team meetings before the
games, he’d say we were both unbelievable defensively, but he just felt
Didier [Drogba] and Lamps just had a little something over you guys, in
terms of scoring big goals on big nights.
As a back four we didn’t make many mistakes, and Liverpool didn’t either. We
always just felt we just had enough firepower, so if we could hold out in
the first leg, we could go into the second leg and have enough. But at times
we just couldn’t break you down or shut you out.
That night 2004/05 is probably the best atmosphere I’ve played in. Anfield
is a special stadium anyway. For me, going there and experiencing that, I
always thrived on getting booed as a team, as an individual, and it inspired
me a bit, but that was probably slightly intimidating for me. I was OK with
that side of it, but there are probably a lot of players in the league who
would probably say: ‘I’m not sure about this today.’
The supporters can make a big difference. We felt Liverpool under the lights
in those CL games made the difference. But we had characters in our team who
would say: ‘This is what it’s all about, these nights, this is what we live
for.’
Carra: We used to talk about getting Gerrard in the positions either side of
[Claude] Makelele. Sometimes Makelele would be a bit isolated if the other
two centre-mids bombed on.
Terry: Jose was confident in getting the ball up to Didier. I think Fernando
had that against us, and Didier kind of had that against Liverpool. Mourinho
would never worry about other players, he would always concentrate on our
side.
But Liverpool were difficult to break down, so many legs in midfield, we
just found it tough to break them down, so we couldn’t really target an
individual.
Whatever it was, Liverpool had something on us, and it did frustrate us. The
animosity was spiced up, and the atmosphere at Anfield was always out of
this world, and same at the Bridge too. We had some real ding dongs along
the way, but this was the start of it.
"Whatever it was, Liverpool had something on us, and it did frustrate us.
The animosity was spiced up, and the atmosphere at Anfield was always out of
this world, and same at the Bridge too."
John Terry
Steven Gerrard, a born-and-bred Red, almost turned blue in 2005 after the
Champions League win. The saga lasted a large chunk of the summer, but
Gerrard stayed at Anfield, despite Terry's best efforts...
Terry: Of course, he was one of the best players in the world at the time,
doing everything he could with Liverpool.
Jose expressed his interest to the England players and asked us to have a
quiet word with Stevie, which we did, but Stevie literally said from day one
he didn’t want to go.
Terry and other England players were asked by Mourinho to talk with Gerrard
But I think his head got turned in the end, like he said recently. But he
would have 100 per cent made us a better side, made us stronger.
Carra: All it was is the fact was he was fearing that his career wouldn’t
hit the heights of Lampard, Terry, Scholesy (Paul Scholes) and different
players at Manchester United.
And was Terry interested in Liverpool?
Terry: I actually forgot. In 2002/03 I didn’t play in the big game at the
end of the season, where we got Champions League ahead of Liverpool, as I
was out injured. Roman Abramovich came in after that. But Gerard Houllier
said to me in the tunnel: ‘Whichever way this goes, I’d be interested in
you.’
It was a brief conversation in the tunnel at Stamford Bridge. I was like:
‘Listen, Chelsea is my club,’ and it didn’t go any further than that to be
honest!
"Jose expressed his interest to the England players and asked us to have a
quiet word with Stevie, which we did, but Stevie literally said from day one
he didn’t want to go."
John Terry on Steven Gerrard
Jose Mourinho's first stint at Chelsea ended abruptly in September 2007,
sacked by the club after a couple of poor results domestically and in
Europe.
Terry reveals Mourinho's departure left many players in tears, and some even
pleaded with the board to change their decision...
Terry: We were all in tears. It was one of those moments where there were
whispers going around, we weren’t performing as well, we weren’t doing as
well in the league, and then he came in and said: ‘That’s it, I’ve been
sacked.’ He went around and gave everyone a hug and a cuddle.
Full-grown men crying their eyes out. We were thinking: ‘Where do we go from
here?’ We had someone like a father figure, guiding us.
We actually spoke to the board and said: ‘Listen, we want him to stay, can
we not bring him back? It’s a rash decision, he’s the best we’ve worked
with.’ Unfortunately they’d made their decision. But yes, there were
full-grown men in absolute tears.
He was so demanding on the group, and he pushed us to our limits at times.
It’s not until you finish playing that you realise why he did what he did.
You’d be sitting there at 8pm at night, and you’d get a message from him:
‘How’s Toni and the kids? Tell Georgie and Summer I love them! How is school
going?’ I thought, my god, I’ve never had that from a manager.
Terry on Mourinho's sacking: "Full-grown men crying their eyes out"
I’d get in and sit next to Lamps and say: ‘Lamps I got a message from the
manager last night,’ thinking I’m the special one. Lamps would say: ‘Yeah,
so did I’, and Didier would say the same!
Every now and again I’ll get a message or a picture or a video from him,
just saying hello to the kids. My kids absolutely idolise him. And that’s
because of the connect he has, that people probably don’t see from the
outside world.
Fernando Torres' £50m switch from Anfield to Stamford Bridge in January 2011
caused reverberations, but the Spaniard could never replicate his
devastating form at Chelsea.
He scored 65 Premier League goals in 102 appearances at Liverpool, but only
managed 20 in 106 at Chelsea.
Carragher revealed how he felt Liverpool had "kidded" Chelsea with the £50m
fee, while Terry at the time had the opposite view, believing that signing
would start a period of dominance for the Blues...
Carra: I couldn’t believe it. And what I mean by that was I knew we’d kidded
Chelsea. I’d played with Torres then for the past 12 months and he was a
shadow of his former self. I think for 18 months at Liverpool he was the
best striker in the world.
I think he had such a good record against Chelsea, and that may have sort of
stuck in the owner’s mind. He scored two against Chelsea that season, when
we won 2-0 under Roy Hodgson. And I think the decision was probably made
then for Roman Abramovich. I mean £50m was major money at that stage, and I
think we were in a state of shock. Of course we were gutted Torres was
going, but we could not believe we’d got £50m.
Torres scored 65 Premier League goals at Liverpool, but just 20 at Chelsea
We ended up probably doing something similar ourselves in some ways, getting
Andy Carroll for £35m, but we also got Luis Suarez out of it. I was not
surprised at all that it didn’t go well for Fernando Torres at Chelsea.
Terry: It’s interesting. From a Chelsea point of view, he was the one I
hated playing against. He always seemed to score at Anfield or the Bridge.
Yossi [Benayoun] was quite close with him, and told us Fernando is on his
way, and we were like: ‘No way, we are going to dominate the Premier League
for the next five or six years.’
That was our thought, from playing against him and seeing it.
"I couldn’t believe it. And what I mean by that was I knew we’d kidded
Chelsea. I’d played with Torres then for the past 12 months and he was a
shadow of his former self. I think for 18 months at Liverpool he was the
best striker in the world."
So often the scourge of Chelsea, Rafa Benitez became manager at Stamford
Bridge as interim between November 2012 and May 2013.
He won the Europa League and finished in the top four, but previous comments
made about Chelsea meant he remained unpopular at Stamford Bridge. For
Terry, Rafa's stint marked a difficult period, starting only five Premier
League games...
Terry: It was tough, I have to be honest. I was actually really looking
forward to working with Rafa initially.
For me personally you want to develop and learn. Like everything, you give
everyone a fair chance, and it’s down to them to prove to you otherwise.
We just didn’t get on from day one personally, to be honest.
Every meeting we had it was: ‘We used to do this at Liverpool, we done
this.’
I had to have a few conversations with him and say: ‘Gaffer, you’ve got to
forget Liverpool, you can’t keep saying “we” this, you’re at Chelsea now,
it’s not going down well with the lads.’
Carra: Do you think he left you out because of those chats? We probably
never really had those conversations with Rafa or different managers, it was
almost that what the manager said, we did.
Terry: Why I found it tough with Rafa
Terry: It certainly didn’t go down well and didn’t help the cause. I was
injured when he arrived, and then I struggled to be fair.
I was out for six weeks before he came in, and I was working back towards
fitness. I played a couple of games, scored, and he dropped me for the next
game, all those little bits added up
I trained as I always did, and gave people the respect they did me.
top